&#9; TRUTH AND RECONCILIATION COMMISSION

&#9;UWC HEARING - DAY 2 - TUESDAY 6 AUGUST 1996



CASE NO:&#9;&#9;&#9;&#9;CT/00656

VICTIM:&#9;&#9;&#9;&#9;MARIUS HOFFMAN

NATURE OF VIOLENCE:&#9;&#9;SHOT BY POLICE

TESTIMONIES FROM:&#9;&#9;ZANE LE FLEUR

&#9;&#9;&#9;&#9;&#9;MARIUS HOFFMAN



COMMISSIONER: ... you most welcome and then on the left is Zane le Fleur. Welcome Mr Le Fleur and with you today is another person I don't have her name - oh! it's a briefer. So you are supported on both sides, it's good to see. Mr Hoffman and Le Fleur you are going to testify and Ms Hoffman is there to support you, it's very good to see. We were glad Ms Hoffman that you here today and that you supporting your husband. So it's just yourself and Mr le Fleur to testify so I am going to ask both of you to stand up and I administer the oath. Mr Hoffman and Mr Le Fleur could you both stand please.

ZANE LE FLEUR&#9;&#9;&#9;&#9;Duly sworn states

MARIUS HOFFMAN&#9;&#9;&#9;&#9;Duly sworn states

MR POTGIETER: Thank you, you may be seated. The evidence [indistinct] a incident which took place in Elsies River on the 18th of June 1992 and which dealt with the rent boycotts at the time and the problems surrounding the problem of rent in Elsies River. You won't be the only witnesses to testify on this particular incident, tomorrow we'll hear further evidence regarding this particular incident. Mr Le Fleur in fact in his statement refers to the background of the events and refers to another incident one involving a Mr De Bruin, we'll hear more about that tomorrow. So to a certain extend your evidence is the commencement of this incident of which we'll hear more tomorrow. So I would suggest that since Mr Le Fleur is going to sketch the background for us on what happened there and the events that lead to the incidents, I would then suggest that he testifies first and then Mr Hoffman who was the actual victim, one of the victims, that he takes over and then testifies afterwards against the background of what Mr Le Fleur has told us. So would you please put the microphone in front or Mr Le Fleur so that we can start with him.

ZANE LE FLEUR:

MR POTGIETER: Mr Le Fleur just as an introduction could you please just tell us who and what you are, where you come from before we talk about the incident in particular. --- My name is Zane le Fleur, I am married, I have one child, I am unemployed and I live in Elsies River. I will start with the previous day's events. Jeremiah Christians and myself who is an ex comrade of mine we received a telephone call and we were told that seven families were about to be evicted on that same day. The addresses were given to us and - what we usually did when people were about to be evicted, at that stage we were voluntary workers for SANCO. We reinstated these people in their homes and we automatically then went to the Council officers to tell them that we had reinstated these people in their homes because we as SANCO members did not feel that people should be evicted from their homes. So we reinstated the people in their homes and we took them along to the office. And there was a bit of an argument there at the office and the security people were called in. And it was decided that we would rather return on the next day and take the matter further and speak to a Mr Carpenter - Mr Carpenter from the - what is now the Cape Metropolitan Council. What then happened that day, is that we all gathered by ten o'clock hoping that Mr Carpenter would speak to us about housing and housing particular in the future for Elsies River residence. And whether people would be evicted in future. Mr Carpenter, we waited for Mr Carpenter for a while but he notified us that he was not available to come out to talk to us. We then asked if somebody else could speak to us and they said no, there was nobody else available. After a while there was another message which was sent to us that Mr Carpenter would be prepared to speak to about six of us. There were about 50 - 55 of us in this hall waiting for Mr Carpenter with the families that had been evicted on the previous day. The people they said no they wanted Mr Carpenter to speak to the whole of Elsies River because it was a problem that touched the entire community. So Mr Carpenter then said, if that was the case he would not be coming out to talk to us. The people then said that they would occupy the offices until such time as Mr Carpenter would speak to us. We then for safety sake decided that the doors should be closed and that we would lock ourselves in. I was sent to the back door it was a glass door and it could be opened from both sides, from inside and outside, but at that stage I wasn't aware of that fact. I locked the door and somebody else locked the front door, security was once again called in and the security started becoming quite restless and they said kaffir open the door. I just gave one look and turned around and try to ignore them.

&#9;Were these white security people or what was the case? The security people were they white people? --- Security - what I can say is at the time when they were standing behind the door they were very arrogant. They had dogs with them - the moment I turned my back on them, they opened the one side of the door, the part that goes outwards, opens outwards and the next thing I noticed that they set the dogs on me. I then ran into the hall where the people were all standing, with the dogs right behind me and the security behind the dogs. The security entered the hall and they then set the dogs on the other people as well and then they started hitting out at the people using their batons. Our chairperson then shouted keep the front door closed we not going to leave her today and we want Carpenter, we are going to speak to him. But as a result of the panic that reigned at the time, myself and Janet Carollis, who is today Janet Hoffman, we were pushed out of the front door by the crowd of people. We stood outside, the one security guard shouted at me kaffir why you still standing and he pushed his shotgun through the little window next to the door and they started shooting. And at that moment I wasn't in the way and he instead shot David de Bruin. That very moment that the second shot was fired, the door was opened, that's the office door and the other security officers started shooting at random at the people. What then happened was that people started running. I saw David de Bruin falling to the ground. I also saw whilst I was running, I looked over my shoulder and I saw that Marius Hoffman he was running like somebody in a trance and he also fell - he fell just not very far away from the front door. A third person was also shot but I can't remember this person's name, but he is no longer here today because he since died. We immediately notified the ANC, Elsies River about the events that had taken place, because people in the community become obstinate, they wanted to take action. And the situation was very-very tense and out of control. Dr Boesak came, he came to speak to the people and gave them the assurance that - that there would be a march on the next day and that we would put SANCO, Elsies River demands to the Council. And the crowd then dispersed. The next day we gathered again and we then marched to deliver our list of demands. 

&#9;Thank you Mr Le Fleur, before we go to Mr Hoffman just one or two questions to clarify your evidence. The security guards, please just put the microphone in front of you, I just want to ask you a couple of questions. The security guards that you referred to, you say that they made various racist and insulting comments, what race were they? --- Are these the security.

&#9;Where they white? --- Yes they were white, they were white people and maybe one or two coloured people, or so-called coloured people.

&#9;Do you know there names? --- No.

&#9;Which firm - what security firm were they working for? --- They were the WCRC.

&#9;Are you saying that one of the security guards pushed his shotgun through the window and started shooting into the room? --- The window hadn't been broken, he broke it as he pushed his shotgun through the window and he then started shooting.

&#9;Into this room full of people? --- What happened, maybe I should mention that, they were behind closed doors. They were behind bars, these bars were behind the doors. There were no stones - what happened was that a woman took off her slippers and she threw this against the door. There was no stone throwing, but he then pushed his shotgun through the window and started shooting a couple of seconds later, the second shot rang out, and that's when the doors were opened, the bars lifted up and then they shot at as if we were animals.

&#9;Were they using shotguns? --- Some had handguns, that man he was the only one who had a shotgun, the other's had handguns.

&#9;You referred to Marius Hoffman, that is Marius sitting next to you. You said that it seemed as if he was in some kind of a trance, why do you say that, was he injured? --- We came around the corner at the moment when the others jumped out and started shooting, whilst we were running, I looked over my shoulder, I saw David de Bruin falling, he did not - he didn't look like an injured person. The way they shot him, it was as if one could see that he was actually wounded and the moment he fell, maybe I don't know whether I can repeat what he actually said, but you could actually see that he was injured, that he had been shot.

&#9;Thank you for that bit of background you can shift the microphone to Mr Hoffman.

MARIUS HOFFMAN:

MR POTGIETER: Mr Hoffman we've listened to the background information given by Mr Le Fleur and as I said we are going to hear more about this incident tomorrow. Can you just try and tell us about the events that led to your injury and how you were injured and so forth. --- On the 18th of June 1992 I was on my way home. When I got home, I was at home for approximately a minute or so, I asked my father where my mother was as usual, and he told me she was at the Civic Centre where the Civic where the rent gets paid. He said that she is at the Civic where they hold meetings. I went to the Civic and when I got there, as I took the - turned the corner to go towards the Civic I heard shots and when I passed David de Bruin who was the first one to be shot, one of the security guards shot at him. And when he felt they started firing at me and I started to run away. And they shot at me approximately three of four times. I couldn't run very far because shot me - they shot me in both my legs and my back, and my arms and also they struck my penis. And I fell, I lay there for about a minute, I didn't want to get up immediately because I felt that I would be shot again. Or that one of the dogs would possibly bite me or something. After a while a lady came to me, and asked me what the matter was and I said please help me get up, I've been shot. She just looked at me and walked away. I attempted to get up on my own and battled, and I walked slowly because due to the pain I couldn't walk very fast. I got to the Civic Center and my girl friend at the time, helped me to the road, and lay me down on the grass. I was getting cold there and an old friend gave me his coat to throw over myself, my mom had probably run home at the time because she didn't know that I had shot - she didn't even know that I was there. My friends who knew me at the time, went home to go and call my family, my brothers and my sister, and at the same time my mother. From there I went to the hospital and I was in hospital, the following day Dr Boesak came to me, and I was lying there. And he said to me he understands that I am going to be paralysed and I said well I don't know, but what has - if it has to be, it has to be, if it's God will that I should be paralyzed, then so be it. He prayed for me and I was in the hospital for about a week or so and I was discharged. When I was discharged from hospital I attended David de Bruin's funeral and during the 7th month of that same year I was referred to an attorney Essa Moosa and when I got there, an attorney Mark Jason attended to my matter. The case continued and up until now I haven't heard anything about the case. And every time I phone them they say that they'll get back to me and let me know what happened to the case and things like that. But up until now no-one has called me to let me know what has happened. And up until today.

&#9;Did you lay a charge against the people who shot at you? --- Yes I did make a statement to my attorneys, but they haven't told me anything in connection with the case thus far.

&#9;So you haven't been to the police? --- No I didn't go to the police.

&#9;Right, thank you very much Mr Hoffman as I said to you, your evidence is but part of the evidence which we will hear on this matter which has been investigated by our investigating team and which will be attended to even further. Is there anything else you would like to add? --- All that I want to say is that the people that did this to me, must pay for what they've done to me, because they robbed me of my youth, and at the same time, they took away my health, because since then I haven't been able to work either for myself or my parents and I use to work before this. That's all thank you.

&#9;Thank you very much Mr Hoffman we've listened to you, I have no further questions.

CHAIRPERSON: Any further questions. Thank you very much to all three of you, we appreciate the fact that you have come here to come and give evidence and we hope that we will be able to do something to see if we can fulfill your request, thank you very much.

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